Coyote Canyon status?

[RufftyTuffty]

Read in another thread that it might be closing as of this Friday the 3rd.

Is this for real or BS?

~Mike

[Herzog]

Real. Check the Land Use section here on RME. Also, Coyote is not a part of AreaBFE.

It is closing because of the new BLM RMP, which goes into effect on Oct. 4th. There are people working local to get the trail re-opened.

[RufftyTuffty]

Damn.....that sucks....coming up next week too...DAMN!!!

Hey Hertz...have you looked at finishing BF?

[RufftyTuffty]

Well....we didn't see any signs on SAT :)

[Herzog]

Well....we didn't see any signs on SAT :)

Not sure if there will be closure signs or not, but it is inherently closed. :(

[scoutabout]

Well....we didn't see any signs on SAT :)

That doesn't change the fact that it is closed.

Running it illegally will make it harder to get it established on the map of legal routes.

[RufftyTuffty]

That doesn't change the fact that it is closed.

Running it illegally will make it harder to get it established on the map of legal routes.

Yeah....but how do out of towners know whats open and closed....here in AZ if it has tracks its open.

Did i say we ran it?

[scoutabout]

Yeah....but how do out of towners know whats open and closed....here in AZ if it has tracts its open.

Like EVERYWHERE, a responsible wheeler should research the area they intend to visit to know what is and isn't legal. Ignorance is not an excuse to law enforcement officers or the people working hard to re-open closed routes.

Did i say we ran it?

:rolleyes:

Did you?

[piecesnparts]

This might be common knowledge now, but in UT Land no longer (almost 10 years now) has to be marked closed. All land not marked open is assumed closed and you may get ticketed. And some areas they are getting real bad, my buddy came back from WY and was riding up in north ogden and got a trespassing with criminal mischief ticket. he tried the it used to be open and the sheriff didn't like it.

Cops can write whatever they want on the ticket, its up to the courts to to prosecute. Because he lives in wy luckily the judge let it go, but it still cost him quite a bit because he came down to fight it.

(this sheriff has been a jerk for as many years as I have known him, he is married to one of my ex-girlfriends sister)

PS just general comment, not directed at you Ruffy

[Corban_White]

This might be common knowledge now, but in UT Land no longer (almost 10 years now) has to be marked closed. All land not marked open is assumed closed and you may get ticketed.

Definitely NOT common knowledge, as of 5 min ago I still thought UT was "open unless posted closed." It is unfortunate that it is not still that way. :( Makes it even more important to educate people because many who have grown up here just unknowingly go out for a drive on closed roads. Then the ecos say that we have know regard for the law and sue to close more roads, eating up the $$$ that might have been spent on education to avoid the infraction. :-\

[piecesnparts]

Well, maybe some others should chime in too there was an article in the paper some years back, Its posted up on the hill under the B in Brigham. I am pretty sure its all of utah but there is a chance its Box elder county. If were not sure I can head up the hill tomorrow and find the ordinance.

I thought the same thing, came back up here to Brigham where I grew up and went up they hill and a land owner has it posted in a plexy glass case.

[Corban_White]

Well, maybe some others should chime in too there was an article in the paper some years back, Its posted up on the hill under the B in Brigham. I am pretty sure its all of utah but there is a chance its Box elder county. If were not sure I can head up the hill tomorrow and find the ordinance.

I thought the same thing, came back up here to Brigham where I grew up and went up they hill and a land owner has it posted in a plexy glass case.
I grew up in Brigham too but haven't been back (to the mountains-except Willard peak) for years. So is the road up the canyon next to the "B" closed now? How about the "I" road? I can easily believe from what I have learned recently (on this board mostly) that it is a law for the whole state.

[piecesnparts]

The I still open and I go hunting up there all the time. I think there is only 1 way up to the microwave towers(on the B side) which I think is National forest land, havent been up there for a few years though. I believe that road goes up the canyon to the south of the B. but the front route that cross on the west side of the mountain is closed. Just as a side note the I side has changed quite a bit right where you go up. The place where everybody used to shoot "Whisky Flats" I think.. is gone, The mining is erasing the mountain. and the backpackers give us a hard time. lol The road that goes all the way up is about where the mountain starts now.

[drtsqrl]

Under the new Moab RMP, motorized vehicles are limited to "designated" trails, unless an area is managed as "open" (such as White Wash Sand Dunes), or "closed". Under the old RMP, areas were either "open", "closed", or "limited to existing" trails. So in the past, if there was a trail that was on the ground and not posted as closed, it was open by default. Now, the route must be "designated" to be open.

There are thousands of miles of routes in the Moab F.O., so it will take a long time for all of the routs to be posted. In the meantime, it wil be up to the user to check the legality of the route. Most all of the popular EJS routes are still open, as is Rusty Nail, the Pickle, and Where Eagles Dare. Unfortunately, Coyote is not. We are working on getting it re-opened, but it could take a while (if ever). It may not be posted immediately, but we hope that people will repect the closure.

By the way, the Record of Decision has not been signed yet on the new RMP, and probably won't be for a couple of weeks. Untill it is signed, the old RMP is still in effect.

[piecesnparts]

By the way, the Record of Decision has not been signed yet on the new RMP, and probably won't be for a couple of weeks. Untill it is signed, the old RMP is still in effect.

Can you go into this a little more, what does that mean.

[Bart]

I hope it's not signed until after Thanksgiving.

[drtsqrl]

Can you go into this a little more, what does that mean.

Until the Record of Decision is signed, the old RMP is still in effect, which means that Coyote is open. The last time I talked to the BLM (about 2 weeks ago), they expected the ROD to be signed around October 30 or 31. You would have to call the Moab BLM to get an accurate date.

[Herzog]

Until the Record of Decision is signed, the old RMP is still in effect, which means that Coyote is open. The last time I talked to the BLM (about 2 weeks ago), they expected the ROD to be signed around October 30 or 31. You would have to call the Moab BLM to get an accurate date.

Excellent! So we can run it this weekend? :D

What would it take to legally not get that RD signed? ;)

[scoutabout]

Definitely NOT common knowledge, as of 5 min ago I still thought UT was "open unless posted closed." It is unfortunate that it is not still that way. :( Makes it even more important to educate people because many who have grown up here just unknowingly go out for a drive on closed roads. Then the ecos say that we have know regard for the law and sue to close more roads, eating up the $$$ that might have been spent on education to avoid the infraction. :-\

As noted, ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it. Laws will vary from area to area depending on managing agency and existing management plans. Everything in the country is moving towards "designated routes only" with the exception of a few open travel areas.

Until there's a system to hand feed every user the latest laws and maps, it is up to each individual to make sure they are being legal.

Take some responsibility. Be responsible. Know before you go.

[Corban_White]

As noted, ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it. Laws will vary from area to area depending on managing agency and existing management plans. Everything in the country is moving towards "designated routes only" with the exception of a few open travel areas.

Until there's a system to hand feed every user the latest laws and maps, it is up to each individual to make sure they are being legal.

Take some responsibility. Be responsible. Know before you go.


:confused::confused::confused:
Maybe you should go back and re-read my post as well as the others referenced to get the meaning. Nowhere did I mention breaking the law or being irresponsible. I know it is up to the individual to make sure it is legal-that's what the comment was about. I was simply bemoaning the change in the philosophy from the old RMP to the new RMP, as was better explained by drtsqurl in a subsequent post.

[scoutabout]

:confused::confused::confused:
Maybe you should go back and re-read my post...

I read the posts the first time. I wasn't trying to claim that you yourself are irresponsible, I have no idea. Slow down. Your statement indicated that you did not know the law until you read it in this thread. So I pointed out that it is an individual's own responsibility to know law in order to obey the law.

"Closed unless posted open" applies to FS property in general.

[Rick B]

"Closed unless posted open" applies to FS property in general.

It applies to BLM as well, and has been the law in Utah for a long time. I last officially heard about it at least 5 years ago.

I no longer expect anyone to have even the slightest clue about what the law is. Most think if there are tracks of any kind there then it is OK for them. They don't even care. And that is why it is all ultimately doomed to closure. It only takes one and I see tens of thousands wrecking it for me.

[camdawg]

is it open or closed now?

[drtsqrl]

is it open or closed now?

The new RMP went into effect on October 31, so it is officially closed.

[RaceMoab#42]

:(

[mbryson]

The new RMP went into effect on October 31, so it is officially closed.


Jeff, any chance of it being opened in the future or is it gone for good?

[drtsqrl]

Jeff, any chance of it being opened in the future or is it gone for good?

We're working on it! BLM doesn't have an official "procedure" yet for legalizing new trails, but we feel that we have a decent chance at some point of getting it re-opened. We are in the process right now of getting our documentation in order. Sometime soon I will be asking RME, U4, etc for help. Stay tuned!

[Herzog]

We're working on it! BLM doesn't have an official "procedure" yet for legalizing new trails, but we feel that we have a decent chance at some point of getting it re-opened. We are in the process right now of getting our documentation in order. Sometime soon I will be asking RME, U4, etc for help. Stay tuned!

Jeff - I have the capability and motivation to setup an informational site about Coyote and how to help save it. Also to help document what proceedures have been done that might help re-open other trails.

If this sounds like something that might be beneficial, let's talk. :)

[drtsqrl]

Jeff - I have the capability and motivation to setup an informational site about Coyote and how to help save it. Also to help document what proceedures have been done that might help re-open other trails.

If this sounds like something that might be beneficial, let's talk. :)


Thanks, Shane. Our next club meeting is in a couple of weeks, and we should know more by then. I'll definately be in touch.

[Olaf]

If you view map 2 that gives the new open routes and map 3 gives the motorcycle and atv routes. http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/moab_fo/rmp/rod_approved_rmp/maps.Par.81420.File.dat/Moab%20Combined%20Maps.pdf


I spoke to the Moab BLM and they confirmed that Coyote is closed. They also confirmed that a route/trail is closed unless posted open.

They also said that it's closed because no member of the public put it forward to be included on the inventory list of trails that were considered to be kept open.

They are working on a paper map that will be user friendly and it'll be posted on their website once complete.

[Kiel]

If you view map 2 that gives the new open routes and map 3 gives the motorcycle and atv routes. http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/moab_fo/rmp/rod_approved_rmp/maps.Par.81420.File.dat/Moab%20Combined%20Maps.pdf


I spoke to the Moab BLM and they confirmed that Coyote is closed. They also confirmed that a route/trail is closed unless posted open.

They also said that it's closed because no member of the public put it forward to be included on the inventory list of trails that were considered to be kept open.

They are working on a paper map that will be user friendly and it'll be posted on their website once complete.

Well I Know for a fact that it was in many comment letters for the RMP :-\ Mine personally also

[cruiseroutfit]

I'm guessing that is a canned response for trail closures per the BLM.

[Olaf]

I spoke to Shelley Smith, the District Manager, and she stopped short of saying that it would've been approved as a trail and at the minimum considered, but that it wasn't on the "inventory list". I'm guessing that there's a process to add a trail onto this list and that comment letters aren't enough.

She said that there will be a way for trails to be added or removed but that it'll be a while before they can outline or handle the process because they have to deal with putting the new RMP into effect. Signage, maps etc.

She was very cordial and I was surprised that she took my call on considering her position. The District Managers here in California don't seem as approachable.

[cruiseroutfit]

I spoke to Shelley Smith, the District Manager, and she stopped short of saying that it would've been approved as a trail and at the minimum considered, but that it wasn't on the "inventory list". I'm guessing that there's a process to add a trail onto this list and that comment letters aren't enough.

OK, that makes a bit more sense ;)

Their "inventory" was formed 5+ years ago, I don't have the Moab RMP documentation right here in front of me, it could have been 8 or more years ago. Basically Coyote Canyon wasn't around when their inventory was first conducted thus it couldn't technically be included. This exact scenario is being played out on the RMP's all over the state.

She said that there will be a way for trails to be added or removed but that it'll be a while before they can outline or handle the process because they have to deal with putting the new RMP into effect. Signage, maps etc.

Sounds promising. I know Jeff & crew are all over the situation and will keep tabs on the situation. Again, similar circumstances are happening all over the state on the different RMP's.

[Going Up!]

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Yet another one of my favorite trails gone......:mad:

Jeff, let us know what we can do!!!

[Herzog]

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Yet another one of my favorite trails gone......:mad:

Jeff, let us know what we can do!!!

Send in your letter!
http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=60284

[Going Up!]

Thanks herzog! I actually got done posting that, and then noticed the big announcement at the top of the forums....HOW DID I MISS IT I DONT KNOW....:rolleyes: But I will get working on it in the morn!

[Meat_]

Coyote Canyon is CLOSED now. They put up signs for EJS. PLEASE do not run it at ALL until we get it added to the RMP, I am confident that this will happen eventually but our efforts will be hampered by people ignoring the signs.

[strangeKowboy]

But yet amazing how many people were running it this past week during EJS. I heard they were down there giving tickets left and right just as you came out of the wash

[Meat_]

But yet amazing how many people were running it this past week during EJS. I heard they were down there giving tickets left and right just as you came out of the wash

I'd heard that they signed it so I checked for myself on Monday.... One possible problem is that they only signed one of the two ways in (or the other sign got ran over and removed)... so if you came at the trail from down stream (which is the hardest way in) you wouldn't even see the sign

[drtsqrl]

I'd heard that they signed it so I checked for myself on Monday.... One possible problem is that they only signed one of the two ways in (or the other sign got ran over and removed)... so if you came at the trail from down stream (which is the hardest way in) you wouldn't even see the sign


Thanks for the reminder, Meat. The trail is currently posted "closed" at each end. I have talked to two different BLM reps in the last few days. They both said that they are "optimistic" that we will be able to re-open the trail, but it will take some time. How much time, I don't know, but we will keep fighting for it here in Moab. By staying off the trail for now, we are all showing respect and responsibility, which can only help us in the long run.